Hearing the Sunrise: An Interview with Przemysław Scheller

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Phot. Marianna Perun-Filuś

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​​From the quiet, final moments before sunrise to the first sounds of a waking world, Przemysław Scheller, a composer, sound designer, and graduate of prestigious institutions like the Karol Szymanowski Academy of Music in Katowice and the Conservatoire National Supérieur de Musique et Danse in Lyon, invites us on an extraordinary sonic journey.
 
Fascinated by the psychology and perception of music, as well as acoustic ecology, Scheller created the unique sound installation Greeting the Sun, which focuses on soundscapes at dawn. In his work, Scheller not only showcases the beauty of nature but also highlights the invasive impact of human activity on the acoustic landscape.
 
In a conversation with Kuba Biegniewski from Zylia, Przemek discussed his creative process, how ambisonic technology helped him bring his vision to life, and his unique perspective on sound and its role in life. Enjoy the read!

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​Kuba: What role does silence play in your life?
 
Przemek: Silence is probably one of the most important aspects of my life. Silence understood as freedom from noise, but also as an internal silence. It's no secret that this particular category is perhaps the most frequently explored in my artistic work – from many angles and in many aspects.

​Kuba: What role does silence play in your life?
 
Przemek: Silence is probably one of the most important aspects of my life. Silence understood as freedom from noise, but also as an internal silence. It's no secret that this particular category is perhaps the most frequently explored in my artistic work – from many angles and in many aspects.

​Kuba: Did this significant role of silence influence the creation of the Greeting the Sun project and installation? Or was it more your experience in composition and earlier sound design?
 
Przemek: It's hard to pinpoint one element that caused this installation to be created in this specific way. The assumptions I had when planning and even making the recordings were put to the test. Being out in the field and recording the audiosphere, I noticed that this silence was missing, even in deep forests.

​Kuba: It's often said that every silence has its own character. It seems difficult to even record silence in a way that truly captures it. Every silence is a kind of noise.
 
Przemek: Let's start by saying there's no absolute silence. We've known this since John Cage and his artistic performances like 4′33″ and experiments in the anechoic chamber. Even when we cut ourselves off from all external noises, we start to hear our own bodies. So, we can never escape sound. Never.
 
Of course, silence has different variations because it's never complete. We can also consider silence in metaphysical aspects.

​Kuba: I'd like to move on now to immersive arts and their role in your work as a composer. Could you elaborate on that? Where does this combination of art and technology come from?
 
Przemek: I've always been interested in electronic music, where multichannel sound systems are commonplace. At our university, we started with quadraphonic sound. I explored these possibilities, and essentially, that beginning was purely tied to a fascination with technology and its capabilities. Later, it began to develop, and one of the big leaps that occurred was transferring the possibilities of working with and creating space from electronic music to instrumental music.
 
This was less a technological leap and more a conceptual one. For example, I started arranging the orchestra around the audience during my performances, rather than just placing them in their traditional, designated spot. I noticed that this significantly changes the very idea of an artistic work.
 
At that point, I started exploring the topic of immersion more deeply. I compare it to sitting in front of a TV. The viewer has their designated spot, the artist has their designated spot, and a flat, two-dimensional relationship develops between them. The alternative is to invite the audience into the entire world that art can be, and to create, through music, what we might call imagined worlds. That's what immersive art is.
 
For example, there’s one artistic attempt to capture this phenomenon in my composition: Trace of a Waterbird. This piece was created and recorded in a specific space - a huge abandoned cement silo. When I first got there, the acoustics inside made me almost dizzy; cosmic reflections, huge reverberation... It was one of those moments when I felt a creative imperative – I simply had to go back there with the composition. Together with great musicians Wojciech Myrczek and Adam Bonk, we had to move the necessary instruments and equipment there (which was neither easy nor entirely safe). Actually, this was my first artistic use of Zylia – I recorded the whole thing with its help, and a binaural version of this composition can be heard on my Bandcamp.

​Kuba: So, in a nutshell, one could say this is an attempt to combine two worlds. A break from the traditional understanding of sender and receiver in musical communication.
 
Przemek: Yes, it's going deeper. It's an invitation to an experience, to transport oneself into another possible world through art. It's about getting rid of a certain barrier.

​Kuba: And why did you decide to use ambisonic recordings and techniques?
 
Przemek: It was a pretty natural progression from the concept of inviting listeners into an immersive space. Technologically, I started using more and more independent audio channels, and the audio systems I used in my pieces grew increasingly complex. Initially, I created each piece for a specific sound system, and it was only after some time that I discovered the ambisonic format, which allowed for far greater flexibility in performing the work. You can adapt it to the conditions you encounter with minimal effort. And, of course, ambisonic recording itself, which, in a way unavailable to other techniques, allows for the reproduction of the real recorded space. And that was an absolute priority for my work.

​Kuba: Did you use any other ambisonic techniques as well? Or was it always live recordings, focusing on that "live" aspect and trying to capture the natural state of the audiosphere?
 
Przemek: Of course, I did. Among other things, I synthesized ambisonic sounds. So, I always worked in two dimensions. On one hand, I have the real recorded sound when I recreate a space I encountered somewhere, and on the other hand, I have tools to create and simulate a certain space using synthesizers, or even live performers who can also play a spatial role.

​Kuba: What microphones did you use at first? Probably a four-capsule one, meaning first-order ambisonic.
 
Przemek: Yes, I think it was Ambeo.

​Kuba: What led to the decision to change? Did the ambisonic order play a role? Was the spatiality better represented?
 
Przemek: I was a bit disappointed with that first attempt. It was one of my initial soundscape projects, and a few things went wrong. First: the choice of microphones. I borrowed them from the University of Silesia and recorded the soundscape in the parks of Katowice. Some people might not know this, but Katowice has a very extensive network of parks and forests. Apparently, forests even make up most of Katowice's area, which is a pretty surprising statistic.
 
Getting back to the microphones, first-order ambisonics didn't provide a satisfactory level of directionality and spatial reproduction. It was okay, but honestly, the difference between regular stereo recordings and those made with that four-capsule microphone wasn't satisfying for me.
 
The second thing, if we compare it to Greeting the Sun, is that those recordings were done during the day. At different times of day, birds sing completely differently; there are fewer of them at noon or in the afternoon than in the morning. On top of that, there was terrible anthropogenic noise –ambulances, cars, planes... It was really noticeable. And that's what led me to realize that if I wanted to create a project, to give people a piece of true nature, I had to go out and record before dawn, at 3 AM, deep in the forest, and then try to record that pure nature. Unfortunately, even that didn't quite work out.

​Kuba: Right, because those recordings still contained some anthropogenic sounds. And what was the preparation like for those night recordings?
 
Przemek: After the previous failure I experienced, I decided I wanted to record the awakening of nature. So, I wanted to start from complete silence and record the first signs that nature was waking up. Of course, it also had to be springtime – that’s when most birds sing.
 
I checked the astronomical sunrise. It turned out to be 5 AM. So, I was in the forest at 5 AM, and there was a choir at their fullest, so to speak. Perhaps the fact that birds start singing long before sunrise is obvious to someone interested in nature, but it wasn't to me back then...
 
Because, in fact, it starts to get gray even before dawn, right? Due to diffraction, sunlight already reaches the Earth. So, I had to be earlier, meaning I got up around 3 AM and went into the forest near my home. But I also took recording equipment whenever the opportunity arose – for example, when I went to visit my in-laws in the countryside, or when I was near ponds, because I wanted diverse fauna.

Phot. Przemysław Scheller

​Kuba: Were you able to record any ambient sound without human activity there?
 
Przemek: I never managed to record for longer than half an hour or forty minutes without some noise appearing.

​Kuba: That says a lot about modern times.
 
Przemek: Yes, you have to realize how little it takes. For example, just one ambulance passing by, removed from the context of everyday life. It turns out you can hear it for almost ten minutes because the noise carries that far. Similarly, an airplane – you can distinctly hear its flight for ten minutes in those recordings. It's truly incredible how little it takes to ruin silence. Once, I actually managed to record the awakening of nature. That soundscape begins with a single bird.
 
But I want to share something extraordinary that shook me. I discovered it at the moment the sun rises above the horizon, which is the astronomical sunrise. And while it's not particularly visible, because you can't see the horizon in the forest, it's an incredible thing – it’s audible. Something changes: in the air, in the atmosphere, in nature's reaction... I don't know. And it is almost metaphysical, because the sound quality actually changes.
 
Of course, other birds also start to appear. For example, literally one minute after the astronomical sunrise. I've heard this two or three times in a row, so it can't be a coincidence. At the moment of astronomical sunrise, woodpeckers start drumming. It's amazing. And the relationship between nature and anthropogenic noise is also amazing. Birds react to noise when they are overwhelmed by it, for example, by an airplane flying over or an ambulance passing by – they quiet down. It's evident that when the noise starts to dominate, they fall silent, and only when it drops to a relatively low level do they start reacting again. This mutual relationship between humans and nature is noticeable.

​Kuba: Going back to that audible moment of transformation. Sticking with the metaphysical aspect, do you think there's a real moment when yesterday changes to today?
 
Przemek: I wonder. I mean, on one hand, I'd like to say no: it's well-prepared because birds start singing an hour and a half to two hours before dawn. The singing develops, and it's a very fluid process. But the moment the sun appears above the horizon is a bit like a switch being flipped, where something changes, and there actually is that leap. That's the moment, the moment of the jump in that gradual process...

​Kuba: And does immersive audio translate to the younger generation of students? What's their interest in such experimental recordings and immersion in general?
 
Przemek: Certainly, what sparks broad interest is technology in general, immersive recordings, and multichannel sound systems. I see this among composition students. Soundscape is also increasingly and more boldly making its way into Polish music academies. Acoustic ecology is already a recognized branch of science. In Wrocław, there are Postgraduate Studies in Sound and Audiosphere, where soundscape is actually being researched by the scientific community. We are an art university, so we primarily use these kinds of things to create music. We may not conduct extensive research on this topic, but students and lecturers are increasingly recognizing the possibilities that technology offers us for use in art.

​Kuba: And still on the topic of technology. How do you see its future? Any insights on technological changes that might occur or are already occurring?
 
Przemek: I try not to predict the future, because I believe today's world is so complicated that it's hard to even say what the current state is, let alone what it might be in the future. What I do see and observe is that more and more concert halls, broadly defined, are opting for multichannel, immersive systems.
 
In Katowice alone, we have Tonarium at the Academy of Fine Arts, of the Soundscape Foundation. At our Karol Szymanowski Academy of Music in Katowice, there are plans to open an opera hall with an immersive sound system next year. We know that this system is already in NOSPR [Narodowa Orkiestra Symfoniczna Polskiego Radia – Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra]. So, we already have three such points in Katowice alone, and there's also such a system in Cavatina in Bielsko-Biała. So, more and more of these places are appearing on the map of Poland, and I think – and this is the only thing I'd dare to predict – that these systems will be increasingly used and accessible to artists, and thus also to audiences. And we can expect many beautiful and captivating productions utilizing them.

​Kuba: Where do you see Zylia's solutions fitting into this process, then?
 
Przemek: When I was looking for equipment, Zylia was the only company that offered such a solution, and I think it still is. Firstly, high-quality recordings in third-order ambisonics, combined with accessibility, because Zylia works with USB, so basically, you just need a computer and Zylia, and you can make those recordings. I undoubtedly see a pioneering element in you, and I hope you will develop it, so that you will be the vanguard of immersive recordings.

Phot. Bastek Łąkas, Katowice 2024

​Kuba: That's very nice to hear. Perhaps I'll go back to Greeting the Sun for a moment, but in a slightly different way. I wanted to ask if we can also expect a "sunset farewell"? Or how would you envision such a reversed idea in general?
 
Przemek: Yes, I admit, I've thought about a farewell too. It's a natural progression, right? But first and foremost, I consider Greeting the Sun an ongoing project. The premiere of this installation took place last year in Katowice, at the Sound Office. This year, it was presented during Musica Electronica Nova in Wrocław, and even though the concept was exactly the same, the recordings were from this year, fresher. And, of course, the sound system was also different. So, if I were to repeat this installation, it would definitely be with recordings I've been making throughout the year, because it's something I'm constantly doing.
 
A "sunset farewell" is a natural development, but honestly, if I were to reveal my artistic ideas, I'd like to start infusing my music into soundscapes and perhaps create something I'm currently calling a "semi-synthetic soundscape." That is, to try to adapt this natural soundscape a bit to my artistic vision, rather than just conveying an observation of the existing world.

Phot: Facebook of Musica Electronica Nova

​Kuba: In that case, what are your closest professional or project plans?
 
Przemek: For now, I'm composing music for string orchestra. I like to alternate between electronic and instrumental music. However, my next actual ideas involve primarily using soundscapes in artistic music. This is what interests me most right now, and I hope to implement it in the coming months.

​Kuba: In the meantime, another, more technical question came to mind. Did the fact that they were ambisonic recordings help in transferring the installation to different speaker systems later on?
 
Przemek: Yes, of course. The very idea of the ambisonic format helps here. Let's put it this way: ambisonic microphones record space, and having recorded space, I can then adapt it to specific speakers, in any way, without destroying the main recording. This is a huge change from what it used to be and how I worked at the beginning. Back then, I had to create directly for the speakers, but now ambisonic recordings simplify this process and, additionally, allow for much greater realism in reproduction.

​Kuba: To conclude, I'd like to ask what we can wish you for the future?
 
Przemek: More silence. (laughs) That's where we started – let’s end there. I'd like to wish us all greater sensitivity to silence and to learn to love it. Unfortunately, I have this sad observation that not everyone likes silence or feels comfortable in it. It's one of the most valuable resources we have, and it can be so easily destroyed. So, for us, for myself, and for all of you: as much silence as possible in life.

​Kuba: Thank you very much for the conversation.
 
Przemek: Thank you very much as well.

Phot. Marianna Perun-Filuś

​​Przemysław Scheller creates instrumental, vocal, and electroacoustic music, striving to delve into the nature of sound. He explores different dimensions of time and space, seeking connections between the past and present. He graduated with honors from the Karol Szymanowski Academy of Music in Katowice and the Conservatoire National Supérieur de Musique et Danse de Lyon. In 2025, he obtained a Habilitated Doctor in Art [post-doctoral title]. As a composer, he has collaborated with ensembles such as the New Music Orchestra, the City of Katowice Singers' Ensemble Camerata Silesia, Ensemble musikFabrik from Cologne, the Tychy City Chamber Orchestra AUKSO, and the Polish Radio Choir in Krakow. So far, two monographic albums of Scheller's music have been released: Ukryte światło [Hidden Light], featuring electroacoustic compositions inspired by Gregorian chant and the sound of bells, and Obumarłe ziarno [Dead Grain], with pieces for chamber orchestra.

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www.scheller.com.pl
scheller.bandcamp.com